Life, Love, and Toothpicks...

[jackofallgeeks]

So I was thinking a while ago about what it is I look for in a Girl... Mike and I spoke for a bit about it today... a girl, he said, needs to be a friend, a room mate, and a lover. A tall order, he said. I think I would tend to agree with him, on both counts (what we want a girl to be, and that it's a lot to ask).

I've said it enough before, and I think I'll say it again, as it's what I was thinking before I spoke with Mike. I need a girl who I can Love. A girl who will be an outlet for my affection. I feel as though I'm physically bursting with affection, but it isn't appropriate to express it, fully, to anyone... I need someone who I don't need to hold back with, I think. Maybe that's even more to ask than Mike's request.

My friend Nifer once said that people are basically selfish, and that everything someone does boils down to a selfish desire. She even reduced a will to do what's Right as a selfish desire, and in the face of that sort of logic there's very little one can argue. still, I think I am a very selfish person. It haunts me. Even my love is a selfish love; I must needs be affectionate, and those I love are an outlet for my affection.

There has been a definition for Love that I've encountered a number of times, and which I hold rather highly. That is, Love is not an emotion or a state of mind, but an act of the will. A conscious action, something you choose to do, not something you happen to feel or tend to think. The trouble is that the willing is willing another's good before your own; that you would have another be happy, even if it means suffering for you. In a few cases, I might be able to claim something close to this definition. I don't know if I'm really capable of this sort of Love. I fear that, whoever She is, I won't be able to Love her enough as to have Her leave me, if need be.

Comments

[surichan.livejournal.com]

::thinks:: Yeah, I suppose Mike's got it about right there, especially if you want to marry your girl. You've got to be her friend, be able to cohabitate peaceably, and be her lover. Those three things, though, sound so surface...and maybe it's just because I've always been a girl with a laundry list of standards for her man to live up to, but I should think that aside from being friendly roommates and bedmates, it's imperative to find in a partner someone you can love and trust - and be honest with. And that's just the bare bones. Love can seem so simple, but to make it work, especially for the long term, it becomes a pretty multifarious thing.

I've heard it said that the greatest test of a love is the ability to let someone go. I've thought about that a lot. I don't suppose it applies to me in that Mike let me go across the world for five months to pursue what I hoped was my dream; I guess this "letting go" refers more to losing a person physically and emotionally, allowing them to move on from you to another person. I'm not sure I could do that either, unless I was being absolutely horrible - and knew it - and convinced myself in a moment of altruism that letting Mike go was better for him. As it is now, though...I know my desire to keep him near is selfish in some light, but I also believe very firmly that no other girl could love Mike as openly and completely and well as I do. I'm far from the perfect girlfriend, but I'm pretty sure - and he corroborates this - that I'm about the most perfect thing there is for him.

I think that if you were to love a girl, Andrew, and see yourself in a clear enough light, it would not be impossible for you to let her go, should her happiness dictate - and I don't mean on a silly whim, I mean if it was genuinely what was best for her. You and I are both seekers of truth, in our own ways, and I don't believe that you could be so blind as to be unable to recognize her pain and know what could aid it. Selfish people you and I may be, but if love is true, I believe a big part of it remains selfless, and willing to sacrifice for the beloved one's needs.

It's late, and I'm rambling, so I'll end with a Jim quote that I know you and I both love: I know it's harder than hell to find peace between a boy and a girl...much less a man and a woman.

Selfishness

[dikaiosunh.livejournal.com]

I won't pretend to know anything about Love.

But the selfishness argument. You're right, you can't argue against the "everyone does everything to satisfy some personal desire" argument. This is a sign that it is a bad argument, not a good one.

Think about it. Sometimes, when you do something, there is a desire you actually feel present. But of course, there are times that we do things when we certainly don't feel like we want to do them - in fact, we think they seem pretty onerous. "Aha!" says the desire person, "you do desire to do it, you just don't realize you do!" You have what Hume (who started this all) called a 'calm passion.'

The problem with this is - how do you know you have the desire? What's the evidence? You did the act. The reason you can't argue against this is that it's entirely circular. The only reason that the desire-theorist gets to count the cases where you don't feel a desire as evidence for her theory is because she's assuming her own theory.

While you're looking for Love, you might take up Thomas Nagel's The Possibility of Altruism as some light reading. :)

Re: Selfishness

[xiombarg.livejournal.com]

Yeah, ditto. That line of argument is psychological egoism, and it's circular. :)

[xiombarg.livejournal.com]

in the face of that sort of logic there's very little one can argue

Eh, that's psychological egoism, and it's very possible to argue with it. It usually amounts to saying that doing what you want is selfish, and so when you do something, it's by definition selfish. It's a circular argument.

The thing is, to me, Love is a matter of doing good for someone else without expecting any sort of return. Under that perspective, it doesn't matter whether She leaves you or not, and it isn't anything worth worrying about.

[aiglet.livejournal.com]

Having both been in love and been loved, I think that worrying about what being in love is is sort of pointless.

When you're there, you'll know. If you have to ask, you're probably not.

On the other hand, I've also realized that there are lots and lots of different ways to be in love with someone. I'll never be in love with anyone again the way I was with my first lover -- every time he walked into the room my heart flipped over and I couldn't breathe and everything went sort of soft around the edges. It was *great* when I was 16 -- 8 years later, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't *want* that anymore. It was like being nauseous all the time, and losing myself in another person isn't something I'd ever like to do again.

Right now I'm in love with gdmusumeci, and it's a much more comfortable sort of thing -- no grand roller coasters, just lots and lots of "knowing he'll always be there." Being loved by him isn't something that causes me pain, it's something I draw strength from, and that's much better than what I had before, even if it isn't as loopy.

Every person loves and is loved differently, but they're really all acts of faith, in the end. You have to have faith that you are loved, and you have to have faith that the other person won't break your heart -- both of those are enormous gifts to your partner, and without them, love becomes impossible.

[metis2be.livejournal.com]

love is a selfish thing, don't try to think of it otherwise. Everyone has the desire to be happy, and I don't know any way to achieve that better than to love someone and be loved in return.

[jackofallgeeks.livejournal.com]

*loves Jenny*
And thanks for the Fashionably Late birthday wishes thingy. Much appreciated.  ^_^

[metis2be.livejournal.com]

Cliche as this is starting to sound, we should really get together sometime soon. My weekends are booked, and my immediate future isn't looking to clear either, but how about next week, maybe tuesday? Kind of been a while by now, and you ::sniff:: don't call me anymore! You say you love me, but I'm starting to have doubts. If things keep going on like this, I think we may need to start seeing other people.