(no subject)

[jackofallgeeks]

Just had a very interesting conversation with a guy about Friends, Sex, Love, and everything inbetween...  ^_^;;  It was quite... interesting. It's conversations like that which remind me that, though I'm not quite as innocent as I pretend, I want to be.

Just a few quotes and comments, mostly things which I felt said something about me.
A lot of it you probably already know, but the conversation was worth recording -- sadly, like a stupid with which I am, I closed Trillian before saving the IM. Damnable.

---

Me: "I think a girlfriend should pretty much just be a best friend who lets you kiss her. That's about it."

Anyoneofus: "That sounds like a friend with benefits to me."

Me: "-shrugs- There's little difference, I think. One has a title."

---

Anyoneofus: "I'm a firm believer in the "you don't shit in your own backyard." You don't want to lose a friend, but eventually you will lose a girlfriend."

Me: "Yeah, that's something I'm afraid of with Claire and I. So far it hasn't happened yet. -phew-"

---

Me: You shouldn't ever feel forced into or out of a relationship -- it's spposed to be a comfort and a support, not a worry. You know what I mean? You should never be afraid of your relationship. Or something.

---

Anyoneofus: I just enjoy giving people pleasure. that's what it comes down to, really.

Me: I like giving people support. Mental, material, emotional -- I'm not a big physical-kinda guy, but sometimes it's the best way to express my affection.

---

Anyoneofus: "There has to be a lot of emotion there. Otherwise I'll just be lured away."

Me: "I'm a big ball of emotion. I'm really just looking for an outlet. In my experience, no one wants my affection."

---

Me: "When I say 'what gay men do is wrong,' I only mean it the same way as I think what straight couples do is wrong. I don't think people should have sex outside of marriage, regardless who you're scrumping with. I can't hold their feelings against them -- it's the same thing girls feel. And I can really sympathize with gay girls. They're all still people."

Anyoneofus: "That actually makes a lot of sense."

---

Me: "I'm a 20 year old virgin. Living proof that it can be done. You're not going to die without sex, and in the end, it'll mean more if you MAKE it mean more. If you save yourself, how much more important is it when you do finally give it?"

---

Me: "I'm the sorta guy who gets a thrill out of a girl laying on his shoulder -- I'll stick to the clean sort of enjoyment, thank you."

---

Me: "It's not about sex. It's about affection. It's about those little things, like holding hands, that no one ever thinks about. Those are the things that really matter, and without them... it doesn't even make much sense.

Comments

"i try not to listen but i hear you..."

[dreamingaloud.livejournal.com]

"It's about those little things, like holding hands, that no one ever thinks about. Those are the things that really matter, and without them... it doesn't even make much sense."

Exactly. In fact, when Beth came to visit me, that was one of the things I liked most about her being here. And the funny thing is that most people would never say something like that. It wouldn't stick with them. But with me it did. In fact, there were lots of things that I got out of that ... that would never have come any other way.

In the end it's always the little things that speak to you more often and more strongly in positive ways. A person could have a million experiences and yet they would always find their way back to a smile, a laugh, or a simple touch of someone's hand.

It's interesting because when I think about it, that lack of actual sex is what made Mulder and Scully so amazing to me. They had the soulmate relationship. The ultimate, the perfect, the one that would beat all else. They would die for each other. They couldn't imagine themselves with anyone else. They were IT for each other. Sex was an idea that ... well, should stay an idea. As much as I loved them together (and I do love them together) .. I want them together as soulmates. Partners in love and trust and a million other things. And when you reach that level with someone, sex seems like... ::shakes head:: Like it's not enough, like it's not worthy of that amazing connection. Like it taints it, somehow.

Which sounds really weird to explain - maybe it's just my reading it wrong because I'm so tired. But anyway. Yeah. We've touched on this subject before... so you know what I mean. ::nods:: Must go lay down to die now, before I say something that sounds even more insane, right?

'night!

Let's talk about sex.

[jackofallgeeks.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't know that I would go so far as to say that sex taints the relationship -- at least, it shouldn't, though I can imagine that if it's where it shouldn't be, it can cause problems. in fact, I know that it causes problems when it gets where it shouldn't be.

Of course, if I'm planning on having a nice-sized family (hell, a family of any size), I'm going to need a good perspective on sex, anyways. It does create a deep emotional bond, which is the cause of a lot of problems if the relationship doesn't survive. It's about as intimate as any two people cane get, which is why I can't understand people who take it as lightly as the American public take it.

But love doesn't have to be romantic, and there's more to us, as people, than the physical. The trouble comes when people don't accept that -- when they degrade sex and make it simply physical. That would taint a relationship, because it degrades the act and it degrades the people. Sex becomes one more way to stimulate yourself, and the person involved is just a means to an end.

And I agree with everything else you say, necessarily.
The little things can make the biggest impact.

i'm gonna sing the doom song now! doom dooooooom!

[dreamingaloud.livejournal.com]

Well, I guess taint isn't the word I was looking for... but I suppose to explain would take me forever and it would still be confusing as hell. ^__^; But for me, simply within the confines of a fictional relationship (Mulder and Scully) ... well, it bothered me when they started to imply (BADLY, mind you - give me a second) that they'd slept together. Like somehow their relationship wasn't already the most emotional, the most secure, the most there it could ever possibly get. Because it was. It was already as deep as I could ever imagine any relationship (in my world, anyway - maybe my ideas of relationships are screwed, no pun intended?) being.

When it was first realized that their relationship had gone into that area was season 7 in Gillian's episode (she wrote/directed it) "All Things". At the start we see her getting dressed, smoothing her hair, then walking into a dark bedroom for her jacket. She stops, looks down at the bed, then walks past it. Instead of following HER, the shot pans up to the bed where Mulder is sleeping. Now, granted, that was fine. Aside from the part where she was LEAVING, I was okay with it... for the most part, anyway.

But then, in season 9 when Mulder is missing and she's trying to not break down at the thought that they may never be together again (at this point she's still got their son, William)... she meets with this guy. He says he knows all kinds of things about her: her height, weight, age, real hair colour... and the fact that on one lonely night, she invited Mulder to her bed. At that point, Scully starts to get a little upset (tears spring to her eyes).

Meanwhile... I'm thinking that out of all the ways to bring to light the fact that yes, they went there with their relationship... why'd they have to do THAT?! I mean... WHOA! BACK UP! People do NOT have sex because they're lonely (or at least, I sure hope not)! Soulmates who've worked together for 7+ years, who've been in love with each other for almost as long, who can barely KISS ... do not just go ahead and "do it" because they are lonely. They had an amazing connection that should have either been a) left alone/a mystery or at least b) been presented in a way worthy of the status they'd built thus far. That they were meant for each other and that nothing could ever surpass or ruin that bond they had.

But in a sense, by doing that with their relationship, it ruined the bond somewhat in the eyes of the viewers like myself. Sure, I'll admit that something had happened (otherwise DUH, where'd William come from? He's no alien baby!) ....but I will not agree that the only reason why it happened was because they were lonely. I'm a hopeless romantic - I strongly believe in the ideals of romance. Saying my favourite couple of all time just, oh, I don't know... slept together because they were LONELY... that taints stuff.

I have no idea why I'm rambling all this to you. It's like, since I haven't had any big experience of my own, I have to shove everything into the confines of my favourite show. But I know what you mean, about sex. ::laugh:: And I totally agree that within the confines of a beautiful, stable, healthy married relationship... sex = a healthy part of that relationship.

[On a somewhat scattered note.... the mental image of you with lots of kids is really very darling, Andrew. ^____^ Hehehe - I hope I'm still around then, so I can get family pictures & stuff at Christmas. Eeee, how cute.]

Whew! I'm SORRY for cluttering such an interesting post with my fan-fueled passionate rant. It was really not my intention and if you want to delete this post, please feel free.

^__^;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

[jackofallgeeks.livejournal.com]

Well, first off, I see where you're getting with this thing -- sex wasn't something 'special' the way they presented it -- it was something that happened in a time of weakness, for no more reason than 'loneliness.' That taints the very idea of sex, and so yes, taints the relationship.

I suppose the point I was trying to make is that sex isn't -necessary- in any relationship, you know? Or something.  ^_^;;  i'm tired and at work, so I'm not thinking at my best right now.

LOL And Mel, it's my Journal -- I ALWAYS feel free to delete comments, should the need arise. Never fear saying whatever you feel in my journal, because it's always welcome. LOL YOU may not think it adds much to the discussion, but there I would argue that you're wrong.

[singinteenangst.livejournal.com]

just wanted to say that I AGREE WITH ALL OF THIS!!!

honestly...why has sex become so demeaning and not-special, for lack of a better description? Even though i'm not sure I'm going to get married, I am DEFINITELY going to save myself for if I do.

just thought i'd say THANK YOU FOR MAKING ME FEEL LESS ALONE IN MY VALUING THE SACREDNESS OF SEX IN A RELATIONSHIP.

[mockette.livejournal.com]

so sorry! just butting in here for a moment to say a few things...
1) i love, admire, respect everything you all are saying <3
2) i completely realize that im WAY younger than all of you but i've known forever and promised myself that i was going to save myself until marriage and seeing all of the things you said above only reasured that standpoint so, thanks!...again, i realize how insignificant that is at my age and level of "experience" but...hey, whatever.
3) whoever you are "dreamingaloud", i just adored your comparison and agreed with it completely! (i also must say i agree with her thoughts on you with kids andrew...::giggle:: its just precious!)
again...thanks and sorry!

[dreamingaloud.livejournal.com]

I think you can make a promise like that to yourself and keep it no matter what your age. ^__^ And hey.... Adnrew LOVES comments. I'll just go ahead and speak for him in saying there's no need for apology. ^__~; Since that's probably what he's going to say anyway.

::smile:: I'm Mel. Nice to meet you. :)

Re:

[mockette.livejournal.com]

::beams:: hello! im meredith...eew. scratch that...mere. :) same to you! oh! you're the one with the pretty eyes and voice!

[dreamingaloud.livejournal.com]

::dies blushing:: See, that eye & voice thing is just something Andrew says because he knows I turn several amusing shades of red/pink. Don't believe a word of it. ;)

Again - lovely to meet you, Mere. :D

Re:

[mockette.livejournal.com]

::laughs:: he said you'd blush if i said that! ::grins::

[jackofallgeeks.livejournal.com]

For the record, I told her that AFTER she posted it, not in order to prompt her to say it.  ^_^;;

[jackofallgeeks.livejournal.com]

LOL!
And you know what? I was talking with Mere as I read these comments, and as soon as I saw 'pardon me for butting in here' I told her she didn't need to appologize -- she's part of the gang.
...and then I saw Mel's Clairvoiant Post. -giggles- You know me far too well.

Yes, Mel, this is Meredith (she seems to perfer 'Mere' even though she's got a lovely name in it's own right, much like you). She's one of my favorite little cousins, and a lovely little girl. -nods to this-

Mere, this is Mel -- she's one of my best friends, and yes, the one with the pretty eyes and voice. -beams- I don't even know what else to say, but yeah, she's a really awesome friend.

Much love, Melissa!

[dreamingaloud.livejournal.com]

Ahhh, us girls... we like to have a million names. C'mon, look at Claire. She's like, our queen. ^___^; Besides that, it's really easy to get hooked on a nickname, like Mel or Mere. Soon half the world calls you that and it's all too late to stop the insanity. ;)

::dies from blushing:: I do not have pretty eyes or a pretty voice, Andrew. I just think you like the idea of my blushing bright red and so you say stuff like that. ::laugh:: But hey. It's your journal... say what you will. If I die of blushing, though.... ::shakes head::

[jackofallgeeks.livejournal.com]

LOL I suppose it's a girl thing. -giggles- I'm fine with ONE name, thank you very much (ignore anyone who cites Andy, Steve, Neko-kun, Don Gato, Rolias, or anything else -- they're lying).

LOL! As much fun as is is to imagine Mel blushing, I have SEVERAL dozen pictures here that attest to the beauty of her eyes. -nods- And you do so have a very pretty voice.
-nods to this-

[dreamingaloud.livejournal.com]

What IS the thing with "Steve", anyway? One of my friends asked me oh so very long ago and I've meant to ask, but it must have slipped my mind. ^__^; ... and you know, I've been called so many things: Mel, Missy, Lissi, Lissa, Melis, Melvis [call me that and DIE!] ... even Tiger, because of my last name. ^__^; Seriously, it's almost weird to hear my actual name sometimes because so few people ever call me "Melissa". One of the girls I was close with in High School started the "Mel" thing and ... well, I can't help what sticks, ya know?

[I just kinda wish there weren't so MANY girls with that bloody nickname. It's MINE! My OWN! My preeeeeccccioooousssss... ^__^;;;

Hmm. Pretty I'm not. But dude, old cam pics make great usericons. Tra la la la la! Thank fuzzy they're all black and white. That way you can't tell it I'm blushing or not. ^__^;

Okay, I've got to get offline before the whole night is gone.

::love!::

[jackofallgeeks.livejournal.com]

LOL 'Steve.' Wow, that's a long story. And, actually, since I'm inclined to do a post on names and their significance to me, I think I'll just do all that t'gether. -nods-
For now, suffice it to say it's quite deliberate when I call you 'Melissa.'

I've actually NEVER known another girl by the name of Mel. I have a cousin Melissa, and I think I've known a few others, but never have they gone as 'Mel.'

-steals icons-
See? Mel's pretty. -nods-
I REALLY like you're fragile icon, by the by. -nods-
I don't have those pics in the ones I've... acquired. They're all color, too, and I'm oh-so enamoured with black and white photos (I have an AWESOME b&w one of my old friend Nancy). If you have one titled "12 ember 10-22-01" though, that's the one on my Refractions CD. I got my brother to gray-scale it, and it looks good, yes. -nods-

Have you ever noticed I can be long-winded at times...?

[jackofallgeeks.livejournal.com]

Seeing as I'm wont to do so, I'm gonna reply...

0) I told you before, but it bears repeating, so as to impress it upon others -- you never have to apologize for leaving comments -- I don't care if you feel you have nothing important or 'intelligent' or pertinent enough. I don't care if it looks like we have a Discussion going, and you just want to make a comment on something else that was said. I don't care if you start talking (as Mel has done) with each other -- I encourage that a lot, actually. I don't even care if you just make a REALLY random, off the wall kinda "I like Pickled Beets" comment -- I'm a bit goofy, myself, from time to time.
The point is, all comments of all kinds are welcome. Should the need arise, I'll delete comments, but you all shouldn't worry about that. And I ask that you not delete your own comments (unless it's an accidental multi-post or something) because it all ADDS to my journal, and I like to keep that sorta stuff around. A man is often measured by the company which he keeps -- and I like my company.

1) LOL I'm glad.  ^_^;;  Like I said, I felt this discussion said a lot about my personal philosophy, and it's nice to hear that people think it's worthwhile.

2) LOL As Mel said, you can make and keep that promise to yourself regardless of how young you are. It's actually better the earlier you decide it, I think, because then you can say "No, this is what I want, and I'm going to stick by it." I think you're a very intelligent girl for making the choice, and I'm not a big fan of 'experience.' You don't have to stick your hand in a fire to know it'll burn you -- you can take the word of other people.

3) -giggles- You know, when I have this family of mine, regardless of how large or how small, you two ladies are definitely going to have to expect not just pictures, but all-out family visits. -nods-

4) If you apologize again, I will have to seriously tickle you. -nods solemnly- I know where you live, Girl.

Re: Have you ever noticed I can be long-winded at times...?

[dreamingaloud.livejournal.com]

::starts to imagine Andrew + Wife + Lots of little feet running around:: ... ::starts to imagine all that at her own house:: .... well, hey. ^__^; If we each get things in order, maybe we'll both end up with kids around the same age and they can play together. ^____^;;;;;;;;;

[you're.really.silly]

I Like Pickled Beets

[jackofallgeeks.livejournal.com]

LOL I would never set my clan upon another's household without due process -- we'd meet in some grassy park or something where the little weevils could run around without breaking anything. ^_^

-imagines Mel's imagi-family playing with his own and grins-
That'd be royally awesome.

[i.get.that.alot]
-giggles-

I like... uhm... circus peanuts? No, really, I like marshmellows. ^___^

[dreamingaloud.livejournal.com]

::giggles like mad:: ANDREW, don't you know? I'm going to build myself a hobbit house! I doubt anything could get broken in something as awesome-looking inside as a hobbit house. Although, for future note, I'm all for parks, gardens & the beach. ^__^

Wouldn't it? Ka-wa-ii. Completely. Hehehe...

I actually lied. I don't like pickled beets. I DO like Pickled cauliflowers, though.

[jackofallgeeks.livejournal.com]

Dude, a Hobbit-house! Rock!

-giggles- Kawaii. So desu, hai.

[mockette.livejournal.com]

i do like my name its just a nice change to hear mere. i have certain people who call me mere...normally the people i've known my whole life ...its kinda a thing where when i hear "mere" i know how special that person is to me, or how special someone is to someone that is special to me. ::laughs:: if you followed that at all! its wonderful to know that i have people backing me, thanks! ::hugs:: aack! i just read you tickling me and i burst out laughing! eek!