Musing

[jackofallgeeks]

So, I've got a friend, we'll call her Anna. And Anna is dating another of my friends, we'll call him John. And they're both good people -- I'm rather picky about my friends -- the trouble is that sometimes dating can be complicated and messy, and this is one of those times. Now, my point in bringing any of this up isn't to stir the hornets' nets, or look for advice from 3rd (4th?) parties, or even to subtly let Anna and John know what I'm thinking. They already know, I'm not shy about saying so. The point is just to talk my way through some thoughts, and make a few notes on things that, I think, can be generalized to all relationships.

Like I said, Anna and John are good people. And when they work, they work great. I've seen it, it's good stuff. But they've been dating for... wow, upwards of a year or two now? At least? And a lot has happened in those two years, with her and with him. Their relationship isn't (and I'd argue can't be) how it was in the beginning. It's more... 'serious', isn't the right word, because I don't mean it in the usual sense. Their relationship isn't more intense or at a deeper level, per se; but it lacks some kind of a carefree quality that it'd had. It's serious. And on top of that, with graduation looming, serious issues and questions about the long-term are coming up.

I talk with Anna a lot, mostly I guess because I'm more comfortable with girls. I'd say John and I don't talk because we're both busy, but it's not like Anna's just lounging around, either. Anyways, in a lot of ways Anna and I hold the same values; we both want to have a family, and we'd both have been fine (if not happier) if we'd started said family last year. Family means a lot to both of us. And a lot of the serious, long-term issues Anna's concerned with have to do with raising kids. And she's partly concerned that John isn't going to be the sort of father she wants for her kids. She's afraid he'll be sort of hands-off, which is definitely not what she wants, but I think it's entirely possible, knowing John. Not assured, mind you; I think if he put his mind to it he could get used to being a dad, but I think he lends himself more to sterile, hands-off methods. In general.

Something Anna doesn't ever really say, though, is that she really needs a guy who's going to support her, and I mean emotionally even more-so than financially. I wouldn't say she's needy, but she gets these moods where she just really, really needs to be reassured. And the same thing about John that lends toward being an absentee father, the same thing that generally keeps me and him from talking more, also means that more often than not he's not there for her when she gets these moods. And that's not a good thing. Put simply, he doesn't care for her the way he ought to, the way she needs. And I'm not saying he can't, he could, he just doesn't.

Really, that's the bit that's irritating me the most right now. I don't like seeing my friends hurt, unintentionally or otherwise.

And all of this is made even stickier by the fact that Anna really, really likes John. She WANTS him to be her kid's dad, she wants him to be there for her, she really wants him. Sometimes, though... -shrugs- I don't know. You can't *make* someone be something they aren't. I believe people can generally be whatever it is they want to be, but you can't *make* someone change. And in ways I'm afraid Anna is asking, or hoping for, John to be something he's not, and something he has little inclination to be. He's not a bad guy, he's just not that guy.

Anyways, I'm not saying they're doomed. I am saying there are non-trivial issues that they need to resolve, which aren't getting resolved either because they aren't being addressed properly (which would be my initial assumption) or because one party or another isn't working to resolve them (for whatever reasons). I'd like to see them work out because, like I said, they're good together. But there's also a chance that they just aren't right for each other.

So, yeah. Just some thoughts.

Comments

[readiness.livejournal.com]

a) Jill Sobule = great choice of music

And in general I agree with your line of thinking here. My mom married my stepdad in a situation like that. They've been together for 11 years but it's been a rough 11 years. My mom just gets so frustrated and the level of frustration has risen with each child. He's "more hands on" now with the kids just because it's all hands on deck but he doesn't like and doesn't really do that good of a job with it - esp when it comes to the nit and gritty of cleaning changing wiping sloping etc. He's great a story reading but...

it's something to think about

[jackofallgeeks.livejournal.com]

Re: Jill Sobule -- I really like some of her stuff. She's got a quality to her voice that sounds nice. Because they have a similar style, and I learned about them both from the same college room-mate, I often pair her in my mind with Casey Chambers, who also has some nice stuff, but... well, she can get annoyingly whiny sometimes. Good for certain moods, just grating in most others. But Jill is not Casey.

Sometimes when I hear about these sorts of things, your stepdad and Anna's problems, I start thinking to myself and get kinda scared. Because I'm looking for some rather specific qualities in a wife, some of which I think are... well, not *actually* conflicting, but the odds of finding them in one person... it just gets discouraging.

[readiness.livejournal.com]

Casey Chamber gets whiny a lot. That's why I only like a couple of her songs while I like many many more of Jill Sobule's song. Have you heard "Sold my soul"? Brilliant

[jackofallgeeks.livejournal.com]

Ha ha. Indeed she does. And no, I don't think I have heard 'Sold My Soul.' I only have a handful of Jill's songs... The only one's I'm really familiar with are "Good Person Inside" (that may not be the right title), "Houdini's Box," and "Now That I Don't Have You."

[readiness.livejournal.com]

and what are you looking for? Now I'm curious

[jackofallgeeks.livejournal.com]

Gah. Wow. This should really get it's own post, but... just off the cuff... A girl who can be my friend, who can give me emotional support when I need it, who can keep me on track with my faith, who will help me become the man I want to be, who can agree with me on how to raise our children, who I can be passionately in love with, who's my intellectual equal, who I can be affectionate with, who I can discuss things with, who gets along with my family, who gets along well enough with my friends, who doesn't mind my geeky indiscretions, who... -laughs- Puts up with the sheer volume of rambling I do when left unchecked. Among other things, I'm sure, but those are the major points I get off the top of my head.

[raen.livejournal.com]

I personally think [without knowing all the facts of course] that the guy just needs some time to grow personally and that your fem friend needs to chuck out that checklist type of thinking.

but then again how tolerant can one person be before they suddenly find their happiness and dreams trampled...

[jackofallgeeks.livejournal.com]

But see, that's part of the point. Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that her happiness depends on having that sort of a family life -- everything else is negotiable, where they live, what her career is, all those other particulars of one's life. But she needs this given family life, or she'll be unhappy (let's suppose). If that's the case, you can't ask her to throw it out.

The point is, if that's what she wants, if that's what will make her happy, and it's not there... well... -shrugs-

[metis2be.livejournal.com]

It's funny you should post this now. Recently, I've been starting to see the same problems between me and Nick. I care about him and want to be with him, but I see that if we were to spend our lives together I wouldn't be happy. He wouldn't be the kind of father I'd want him to be and he wouldn't be the kind of husband I'd want him to be. As for now I'm simply stuck, I don't want to break up with him now because of future concerns, but I don't want it to go too far and me to end up unsatisfied with my life. I keep wishing he would change, but I know that's impossible, it's been more than a year and a half and if he hasn't changed yet, there's not a chance he will start now.

[jackofallgeeks.livejournal.com]

It has long been my opinion that, generally speaking, people don't change. Not in any real sense, anyways. Habits are formed and broken, tastes change, little accidental things that are a part of how we define ourselves, but I don't think anyone ever really changes.

At the same time, people do develop. In a lot of ways I'm the same boy I was in 9th, 5th, 3rd grade. But I'm reasonably more self-aware and aware of the people and things around me. The additional awareness informs my behavior, but I don't think I've changed. I'm still hopelessly romantic, naively optimistic, and a chronic worrier.

I'm not saying we're utterly incapable of any kind of change; that'd be a rather dim view of humanity to have. But when it gets right down to it, a person will always be who they've always been. I think a lot of people (I'd be inclined to say 'mostly girls,' and maybe that's true, but I've caught myself in it, too) wish that this person would change, just a little bit, because then it would be perfect. Almost-but-not-quite is a lot worse than dead-on-wrong, because it's harder to walk away from.

Nothing will be perfect, of course, but I like to think that we can at least look for someone who's not-perfect on the bits that aren't so important to us. Sometimes, though, I'm afraid I'll pass over the girl I'm looking for because of something insignificant...

[metis2be.livejournal.com]

At least you have a jump on me, you know what you're looking for. I'm completely clueless on what I'd like in someone I'd like to spend the rest of my life with. Right now my current criteria is not-an-introvert. I've had two relationships in my life, and both times they were with introverted boys, and both times that's what my main problem in the relationship has been. I wish I had someone who would share with me. Nick has no problem sharing the deep secrets of what computer problem he solves during the day, but when it comes to things like what he wants out of his life or his emotional weaknesses, I'm still in the dark. Every time I try to have a serious conversation with him, it becomes a monologue because he'll want to express himself, he just won't.