Re: Fat

[jackofallgeeks]

So, I'm starting to get angry about the response to my fat post the other day. If I said (and I have) that I don't like stupid people, no one thinks, hey, I'm stupid! No one gives me flack because they scored poorly on the SATs and can't do math in their heads, let alone follow an argument on metaphysics. But I mention something less significant and more superficial, the fact that some people I knew have put on so much weight as to be barely recognizable, and I get slapped around by my friends who suddenly don't know me, and can't believe I'd be so superficial. I'm not talking about, My God, these girls must've put on, like, 20 pounds!. I mean that they've doubled or more what they once weighed, or it appears so as I don't know what they're up to now. If a girl weighs 120, puts on fifty pounds and weighs 170, yeah, she put on weight. But there's a significant difference between that and a girl who was 120 now weighing 240. No, Laurel, I don't think you're fat. I've seen pictures of you -- hell, VIDEOS of you -- in highschool. Don't imagine that I wouldn't be your friend now if I'd known how much weight you put on. No Jenny, I don't think your fat. Nor you, Erin. Nor Anastasiya, or Amber, or anyone else: if you want me to go down the list and name all my friends I will.

What really pisses me off, though, is the mere fact that this is even a big deal. No one would argue that putting on 80 pounds is less-than-healthy. *I* have put on weight, and wouldn't mind losing some. But if you COMMENT on weight gain, you've crossed the line. And what REALLY pisses me off is that the comments I've gotten, from the girls who have said it, is indicative of the whole fucked-up body image that our society imposes on girls. "I don't match the ideal, so he must be talking about me (or people like me)." And that any of you would question years of friendship based on an offhand remark about people gaining a gross amount of weight...!

I have to go to work.

Comments

[metis2be.livejournal.com]

The thing is, we all have issues about how we are. I understand cognitively that I'm a fairly intelligent person, but I still see myself as incredibly stupid, I always feel like I'm stuck in a group talking about something I don't understand and it's just that nobody notices me pull back and start looking uncomfortable and bored. I understand that I'm not too terribly overweight, but when I see that I had gone from a size 6 to a size 16 at one point I feel ashamed at what I had let myself become. The difference is that when people make comments about unintelligent people, I'm able to pull back and pretend that I'm as smart as people seem to see me as, but when it comes to weight, there's no way to hide a massive weight gain.

[jackofallgeeks.livejournal.com]

You are smart and pretty, and even if you aren't the exact size or shape you'd like to be, I tend not to surround myself with people I find distasteful. If nothing else good comes of it, at least my tendency to be judgmental says good things about you (in that I choose to be around you and call you my friend).

I'm personally a little ashamed of the weight I carry -- not a lot, as I think I'm generally the right size and shape, but I tend not to take great care of my myself and my weight is something that's indicative of that. I'm trying (however unsuccessfully) to alter my lifestyle to account for this, but therein lies my point: how do you get so far gone?

Like Erin said, there's medication and illness and disorders -- but, generally speaking, medication and illness are transient and temporary, and a disorder is a diagnosis, not an excuse. A tendency toward a certain behavior doesn't make that behavior any more acceptable -- that's why it's called a disorder. And while, no, those aren't easy things to fix...

Anyways...

But what's MORE, where do your 'issues' stem from? The idea that you aren't shaped right, the idea that you don't fir some ideal mold, and that that makes you a bad person or something. And THAT irritates me because you buy into it. And, and...!

Anyways...

[metis2be.livejournal.com]

I'm going to play the disorder card on that last one. I don't feel like getting into details on livejournal, but I've come to terms with the fact that I'm never going to be all right and I've learned to cope, but it doesn't make it any easier. I don't have a mold I feel the need to fit into and I'm more comfortable with myself than previous comments would imply. However, when I have issues with myself it's not because of what I feel I should be, it's feeling like what I am is wrong, regardless of knowing that I'm just what I should be to make a good Jenny.

If you want any sort of elaboration then hit me up on the phone, or possibly IM. Also, next week would happen to be my spring break so I have rather large chunks of time available. I don't know my schedule (other than having obligations on thursday and friday), but I'm more than willing to try to work my very flexible work schedule around when you're free.

[nif.livejournal.com]

Oh LJ drama.

I think, in general, people should take things a lot less personally.

That's all I'll say because I don't want to start a war (or more of one) on your journal.

But I will add that it is, in fact, YOUR journal and you are free to say whatever you want without fear of infamy.

[jackofallgeeks.livejournal.com]

:p And this is all true.

[laurelei28.livejournal.com]

Of course he can say what he wants, but he made two interesting choices, first off he CHOSE to make it friends only instead of just generally public, which tells me that he kinda knew that it would be not publicly acceptable. Two, though he can say whatever as its his right and his choice, as he decided to share it with friends we have the right to respond, whether supportive or not- since he didn't disallow the comment feature. All that being said, why is there so much surprise about the hullaballo? Our friend picked a very touchy subject and expressed views on it. Friends expressed views back. End of story. This isn't any different than anything else except that lots of people (self included) are furious.

[jackofallgeeks.livejournal.com]

To that I'll say this: I locked if from The World because The World doesn't know me well enough to properly interpret my opinions. I take for granted that my friends do. I lock touchy posts for this reason almost exclusively. As to your second point, as noted this journal is for you, so locking comments ever is kind of silly. So, yeah, I was asking for input, but I never expect to be attacked by my friends, furious or not.

Part of what had me so hurt was that very anger; I don't understand it. I can only conclude that you're reading into my statements more or less than I said -- and while I can be unclear a lot of the time, none of the responses were of the form, "I don't understand, why would you say that?" The offending posts were each of the form, "that's cruel" or "oh? So what do you think of ME?" and similar.

I don't think I should have to reiterate that I don't condone the media-imposed ideal that society pushes on women. I shouldn't have to point out that I'm shocked and angered when people harm themselves, through eating disorders or otherwise. I shouldn't have to point out all the little bits and details that I would expect pull whatever punch those comments had because these are my friends. Unlike The World, they know me.

[quix.livejournal.com]

LJ is a lot like e-mail. When hot-button issues come up, they tend to forget who it is that's talking about the issue and go into "flight/fight" mode. And in the anonymity of the intarweb, it's a lot easier to choose "fight" then it would be otherwise.

Sorry you had to get those attacks from your friends. I hope they calm down and realize they're judging you for simply being human.

[thismortalquill.livejournal.com]

I think the problem was that many of your posts feel confidential and intimate, and in this case your initial 'fat' post felt very aggressive. If people usually felt that your blogging was partially for their benefit (as in: they get something positive when you share of yourself) then it's understandable that they would get a little hostile when they felt that you were attacking them in your private world (OBVIOUSLY not your intention).

That post sort of felt like getting a bunch of thespians together into a quiet huddle: expecting a personal anecdote from a play you'd seen, and instead getting a shouting rant as to why you can't stand actors who aren't in widely publicised productions, and yeah, you're not in a big name production either, but it's sure better than those actors who are taking any parts out of desperation. How could they have let their craft suffer in that way? Especially since the actors in question used to have lead roles on broadway five or six years ago.

The analogue here is that while you might like ALL of the thespians in the room and think their work is awesome, they might feel like they are playing two bit parts and your words would therefore hurt them. Anyhow, you get my drift.

I have to agree completely with several of your observations. It's true that that "letting yourself go" is respective. If I had been 110 pounds in highschool, my pre-accident weight of 220 (when I met with you) would have really felt like I was letting myself go. As it happens, I was 240 in high school, and 220 was a huge improvement in much less body fat and lots more muscle. I felt fit and felt good about myself and anyone from high school who saw me would have commented on how great I looked... at 220! That's very different from gaining half my body weight again. To achieve that sort of transformation, I would have had to go from 240 to what, 480? It would have had to have been just gross and very unsettling to those who knew me back in high school.

It's the insidious weight creep that is the hardest to combat. It's so gradual you don't notice it. And when you do, it seems so hopeless because there's nothing in your life that stands out as the culprit. Through a variety of circumstances, I quickly gained about 60 lbs post-accident, and *now* I feel like I have let myself go, and let me tell you I am in a *hurry* to rectify the situation now that I have medical clearance to do so.

I've rambled a bit, but let me close by saying I think you have every right to express your opinions on your blogs and it's unfair for your friends to criticize you for it, especially if they are reading their own insecurities into a statement that did not apply to them in any way. I think that in the face of the taboo of talking about fat, it's important to admit when you have intolerances. To be honest, even though I'm heavy, I can't understand how people can "let themselves go" to the tune of being non-functional in society or having to special order clothes or whatnot. It creeps me out a bit, and is my major motivation for wanting to get back to a weight where I think I look as sexy and capable as I feel inside.