So, you want her to be surprised?
Mar. 18th, 2007 01:08 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jackofallgeeksAnother thing Ryan and I talked about last night was the topic of girls. I mean, why not, they're fascinating creatures. The conversation got off on a bit of an... odd fork, though, when after saying he's been with his current girlfriend for over three years and they were planning on moving in together, there wasn't anything "serious" in the works, ie an engagement.
Now, I'll readily admit that I'm old-fashioned and not everyone thinks along the same lines as me about the way things ought to be and ought not to be. I'm sure I have friends who not only wouldn't see a problem with dating for years on end indefinitely, but would have a problem with me for expecting that marriage ought to come into it at some point. That's fine and I can accept that, and Ryan's bit would have elicited little more than an, "Oh, well, that's... interesting," if not for the fact that he went on to tell me about the time he proposed to her last year. So now we have Ryan with a girl he's dated for years, and is still dating, who he proposed to once. When I asked if the proposal went bad (which, had he said yes, would have been followed up by wondering why they were still together; isn't that kind of a, you know, deal-breaker?) he said no -- she turned him down because her parents didn't want her to get engaged before she graduated college. (I'll reserve my commentary on that for the time being.)
So, if he wanted to marry her before, and it was just a matter of her graduating (which, by the by, happens in two months now) why nothing was in the works. Had he changed his mind since then? (and, again, if so why were they still together?) And he said no, but he didn't want to propose again so soon because she would be expecting it. And he wanted her to be surprised.
I think here there are two lines of thought. There's the one line that says that a proposal should be magically romantic, unexpected, involve an expensive ring, starlight, a good story to tell the grandkids. And I think there's a little bit of value in that, sure; I think it's always good to have stories to tell the grandkids. But... I don't know. It seems a bit foolish to me. I imagine that, one way or another, she ought not be surprised by you proposing to her. There's a level where she *should* be expecting it, and if she's not -- if you really are surprising her -- I think there are some issues that need to be addressed in your relationship. It's all well and good to stage something wonderfully romantic for her if that's what she wants; let her have her dreams. But at the same time, I'd be just as happy casually asking her one lazy Thursday evening, "so, do you want to get married in the fall or the spring?"
I guess 'how you do it' doesn't matter to me quite as much as the "why you don't" -- Ryan was putting off proposing for the simple reason that it wouldn't be a surprise. And that just seems... foolish. If you want to marry her, why would you put it off a day longer than you had to?
In the end Ryan concluded he was probably just over-thinking it, and that he was quietly afraid that if he did what she was expecting, she might suspect his motives (ie, just doing what was expected of him). Of course, it *that's* the case, once again there are deeper issues that probably should be addressed.
Now, I'll readily admit that I'm old-fashioned and not everyone thinks along the same lines as me about the way things ought to be and ought not to be. I'm sure I have friends who not only wouldn't see a problem with dating for years on end indefinitely, but would have a problem with me for expecting that marriage ought to come into it at some point. That's fine and I can accept that, and Ryan's bit would have elicited little more than an, "Oh, well, that's... interesting," if not for the fact that he went on to tell me about the time he proposed to her last year. So now we have Ryan with a girl he's dated for years, and is still dating, who he proposed to once. When I asked if the proposal went bad (which, had he said yes, would have been followed up by wondering why they were still together; isn't that kind of a, you know, deal-breaker?) he said no -- she turned him down because her parents didn't want her to get engaged before she graduated college. (I'll reserve my commentary on that for the time being.)
So, if he wanted to marry her before, and it was just a matter of her graduating (which, by the by, happens in two months now) why nothing was in the works. Had he changed his mind since then? (and, again, if so why were they still together?) And he said no, but he didn't want to propose again so soon because she would be expecting it. And he wanted her to be surprised.
I think here there are two lines of thought. There's the one line that says that a proposal should be magically romantic, unexpected, involve an expensive ring, starlight, a good story to tell the grandkids. And I think there's a little bit of value in that, sure; I think it's always good to have stories to tell the grandkids. But... I don't know. It seems a bit foolish to me. I imagine that, one way or another, she ought not be surprised by you proposing to her. There's a level where she *should* be expecting it, and if she's not -- if you really are surprising her -- I think there are some issues that need to be addressed in your relationship. It's all well and good to stage something wonderfully romantic for her if that's what she wants; let her have her dreams. But at the same time, I'd be just as happy casually asking her one lazy Thursday evening, "so, do you want to get married in the fall or the spring?"
I guess 'how you do it' doesn't matter to me quite as much as the "why you don't" -- Ryan was putting off proposing for the simple reason that it wouldn't be a surprise. And that just seems... foolish. If you want to marry her, why would you put it off a day longer than you had to?
In the end Ryan concluded he was probably just over-thinking it, and that he was quietly afraid that if he did what she was expecting, she might suspect his motives (ie, just doing what was expected of him). Of course, it *that's* the case, once again there are deeper issues that probably should be addressed.
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no subject
Date: 2007-03-19 12:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-03-19 07:24 am (UTC):p I wish I was in a position to be making excuses.
no subject
Date: 2007-03-20 02:42 pm (UTC)but i fully support your ideas that after three years and a previous proposal, there should be SOMETHING in the works, or at least discussed. i mean, i wasn't allowed to get married till after I graduate, so we just decided on a long engagement.
of course, there are people who for whatever reason (divorced parents, bad history) do not want to get married. ever. and sometimes couples are truly able to come to an understanding that "i love you, want to be with you forever, but do not want to be part of some institution". i think it's a little......blind, i guess. but it really works for some people. and some people don't even want to make the commitment of, "i want to be with you forever". some people just aren't commitment people. but they BOTH have to be on the same page for that to really work. and if your friend already proposed, then they're obviously not on that page.
so yea...sounds like there are a few more conversations that those two need to have...but i don't think they're in any kind of dire condition. they're still young, and probably unsure of what they really want out of life...and that's okay too.
no subject
Date: 2007-03-22 02:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-03-22 03:45 am (UTC)^_~