A Dialogue Or A Monologue?
Feb. 7th, 2003 12:55 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jackofallgeeksSo, right, Leslie just had a Post in which an inconsiderate teacher caused her great harm while discussing abortion. Someone made a 2-part reply which I still feel is the most well presented, intelligent argument of the Other Side that I've ever come across. Rather due to this fact, I felt complelled to reply with my own stance, in the hopes that she and I may be able to get an honest discussion going on the subject.
Abortion is a big deal for me. I've done a number of research pappers on the issue, and it seems to me to actually be a great dis-service to women. It contributes to the objectification of women in the eyes of men (since 'she might get pregnant' becomes 'she can just get an abortion') and it is far more threatening, physically and psychologically, to the woman than the man. It might perhapse be argued that men suffer mentally and/or emotionally, but definitely not as severely as women risk, and men are most especially not in any physical danger from an abortion.
As I said, she was very intelligent about the issue, and so I tried my best to present my views in a similarly intelligent way. I took the different points she focused on and presented my view on the same points Through out, in my opinion, I kept my tone level, and I tried to stick with what I knew. In the end, I felt we were generally on the same side, if with two dviews on the issue (a necessary evil as opposed to an intollerable evil). I hoped to have a civil discussion with her, or at the very least for her to let my response stand.
Such was not to be, and I regret that fact. Instead of opening a dialogue, I was presented quite succinctly with insult to my intelligence, a questioning of my motives, and implications that I'm 'out of touch with my humanity.' By far, not the respectful discussion for whgich I had hoped. I moved to defend myself, as I'm wont to do when attacked, but the lines of discourse had been closed. It seems, also, that she believes sowho is religious and/or has not 'experienced' things for himself can not make a reasonable argument on the issue based on what he knows. To This, I simply say that I never said sex was a werakness or that pleasure is bad -- neither of the two is my stand, though it would take quite some time to explain what I do believe -- but even at that, must you always follow your base urges?
One question still stands -- she accused me of 'blaming women,' which I should expect anyone who knows me understands is quite far from the truth. However, I wonder if she would have responded differently if I had been a girl. Even if she hadn't knownmy gender, would she have replied differently or simply assumed I was a man? She made similar assumptions already -- that I was a religious man when I had not brought God nor morality (except the idea that we should strive to better ourselves) into the discussion.
-shrugs-
Anyways, she wasn't interested in a discussion, it seems.
Abortion is a big deal for me. I've done a number of research pappers on the issue, and it seems to me to actually be a great dis-service to women. It contributes to the objectification of women in the eyes of men (since 'she might get pregnant' becomes 'she can just get an abortion') and it is far more threatening, physically and psychologically, to the woman than the man. It might perhapse be argued that men suffer mentally and/or emotionally, but definitely not as severely as women risk, and men are most especially not in any physical danger from an abortion.
As I said, she was very intelligent about the issue, and so I tried my best to present my views in a similarly intelligent way. I took the different points she focused on and presented my view on the same points Through out, in my opinion, I kept my tone level, and I tried to stick with what I knew. In the end, I felt we were generally on the same side, if with two dviews on the issue (a necessary evil as opposed to an intollerable evil). I hoped to have a civil discussion with her, or at the very least for her to let my response stand.
Such was not to be, and I regret that fact. Instead of opening a dialogue, I was presented quite succinctly with insult to my intelligence, a questioning of my motives, and implications that I'm 'out of touch with my humanity.' By far, not the respectful discussion for whgich I had hoped. I moved to defend myself, as I'm wont to do when attacked, but the lines of discourse had been closed. It seems, also, that she believes sowho is religious and/or has not 'experienced' things for himself can not make a reasonable argument on the issue based on what he knows. To This, I simply say that I never said sex was a werakness or that pleasure is bad -- neither of the two is my stand, though it would take quite some time to explain what I do believe -- but even at that, must you always follow your base urges?
One question still stands -- she accused me of 'blaming women,' which I should expect anyone who knows me understands is quite far from the truth. However, I wonder if she would have responded differently if I had been a girl. Even if she hadn't knownmy gender, would she have replied differently or simply assumed I was a man? She made similar assumptions already -- that I was a religious man when I had not brought God nor morality (except the idea that we should strive to better ourselves) into the discussion.
-shrugs-
Anyways, she wasn't interested in a discussion, it seems.
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no subject
Date: 2003-02-07 10:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-02-07 11:17 am (UTC)