John Noble (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
jackofallgeeks) wrote2007-02-08 12:10 pm
jackofallgeeks) wrote2007-02-08 12:10 pm
Musing
So, I've got a friend, we'll call her Anna. And Anna is dating another of my friends, we'll call him John. And they're both good people -- I'm rather picky about my friends -- the trouble is that sometimes dating can be complicated and messy, and this is one of those times. Now, my point in bringing any of this up isn't to stir the hornets' nets, or look for advice from 3rd (4th?) parties, or even to subtly let Anna and John know what I'm thinking. They already know, I'm not shy about saying so. The point is just to talk my way through some thoughts, and make a few notes on things that, I think, can be generalized to all relationships.
Like I said, Anna and John are good people. And when they work, they work great. I've seen it, it's good stuff. But they've been dating for... wow, upwards of a year or two now? At least? And a lot has happened in those two years, with her and with him. Their relationship isn't (and I'd argue can't be) how it was in the beginning. It's more... 'serious', isn't the right word, because I don't mean it in the usual sense. Their relationship isn't more intense or at a deeper level, per se; but it lacks some kind of a carefree quality that it'd had. It's serious. And on top of that, with graduation looming, serious issues and questions about the long-term are coming up.
I talk with Anna a lot, mostly I guess because I'm more comfortable with girls. I'd say John and I don't talk because we're both busy, but it's not like Anna's just lounging around, either. Anyways, in a lot of ways Anna and I hold the same values; we both want to have a family, and we'd both have been fine (if not happier) if we'd started said family last year. Family means a lot to both of us. And a lot of the serious, long-term issues Anna's concerned with have to do with raising kids. And she's partly concerned that John isn't going to be the sort of father she wants for her kids. She's afraid he'll be sort of hands-off, which is definitely not what she wants, but I think it's entirely possible, knowing John. Not assured, mind you; I think if he put his mind to it he could get used to being a dad, but I think he lends himself more to sterile, hands-off methods. In general.
Something Anna doesn't ever really say, though, is that she really needs a guy who's going to support her, and I mean emotionally even more-so than financially. I wouldn't say she's needy, but she gets these moods where she just really, really needs to be reassured. And the same thing about John that lends toward being an absentee father, the same thing that generally keeps me and him from talking more, also means that more often than not he's not there for her when she gets these moods. And that's not a good thing. Put simply, he doesn't care for her the way he ought to, the way she needs. And I'm not saying he can't, he could, he just doesn't.
Really, that's the bit that's irritating me the most right now. I don't like seeing my friends hurt, unintentionally or otherwise.
And all of this is made even stickier by the fact that Anna really, really likes John. She WANTS him to be her kid's dad, she wants him to be there for her, she really wants him. Sometimes, though... -shrugs- I don't know. You can't *make* someone be something they aren't. I believe people can generally be whatever it is they want to be, but you can't *make* someone change. And in ways I'm afraid Anna is asking, or hoping for, John to be something he's not, and something he has little inclination to be. He's not a bad guy, he's just not that guy.
Anyways, I'm not saying they're doomed. I am saying there are non-trivial issues that they need to resolve, which aren't getting resolved either because they aren't being addressed properly (which would be my initial assumption) or because one party or another isn't working to resolve them (for whatever reasons). I'd like to see them work out because, like I said, they're good together. But there's also a chance that they just aren't right for each other.
So, yeah. Just some thoughts.
Like I said, Anna and John are good people. And when they work, they work great. I've seen it, it's good stuff. But they've been dating for... wow, upwards of a year or two now? At least? And a lot has happened in those two years, with her and with him. Their relationship isn't (and I'd argue can't be) how it was in the beginning. It's more... 'serious', isn't the right word, because I don't mean it in the usual sense. Their relationship isn't more intense or at a deeper level, per se; but it lacks some kind of a carefree quality that it'd had. It's serious. And on top of that, with graduation looming, serious issues and questions about the long-term are coming up.
I talk with Anna a lot, mostly I guess because I'm more comfortable with girls. I'd say John and I don't talk because we're both busy, but it's not like Anna's just lounging around, either. Anyways, in a lot of ways Anna and I hold the same values; we both want to have a family, and we'd both have been fine (if not happier) if we'd started said family last year. Family means a lot to both of us. And a lot of the serious, long-term issues Anna's concerned with have to do with raising kids. And she's partly concerned that John isn't going to be the sort of father she wants for her kids. She's afraid he'll be sort of hands-off, which is definitely not what she wants, but I think it's entirely possible, knowing John. Not assured, mind you; I think if he put his mind to it he could get used to being a dad, but I think he lends himself more to sterile, hands-off methods. In general.
Something Anna doesn't ever really say, though, is that she really needs a guy who's going to support her, and I mean emotionally even more-so than financially. I wouldn't say she's needy, but she gets these moods where she just really, really needs to be reassured. And the same thing about John that lends toward being an absentee father, the same thing that generally keeps me and him from talking more, also means that more often than not he's not there for her when she gets these moods. And that's not a good thing. Put simply, he doesn't care for her the way he ought to, the way she needs. And I'm not saying he can't, he could, he just doesn't.
Really, that's the bit that's irritating me the most right now. I don't like seeing my friends hurt, unintentionally or otherwise.
And all of this is made even stickier by the fact that Anna really, really likes John. She WANTS him to be her kid's dad, she wants him to be there for her, she really wants him. Sometimes, though... -shrugs- I don't know. You can't *make* someone be something they aren't. I believe people can generally be whatever it is they want to be, but you can't *make* someone change. And in ways I'm afraid Anna is asking, or hoping for, John to be something he's not, and something he has little inclination to be. He's not a bad guy, he's just not that guy.
Anyways, I'm not saying they're doomed. I am saying there are non-trivial issues that they need to resolve, which aren't getting resolved either because they aren't being addressed properly (which would be my initial assumption) or because one party or another isn't working to resolve them (for whatever reasons). I'd like to see them work out because, like I said, they're good together. But there's also a chance that they just aren't right for each other.
So, yeah. Just some thoughts.
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And in general I agree with your line of thinking here. My mom married my stepdad in a situation like that. They've been together for 11 years but it's been a rough 11 years. My mom just gets so frustrated and the level of frustration has risen with each child. He's "more hands on" now with the kids just because it's all hands on deck but he doesn't like and doesn't really do that good of a job with it - esp when it comes to the nit and gritty of cleaning changing wiping sloping etc. He's great a story reading but...
it's something to think about
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but then again how tolerant can one person be before they suddenly find their happiness and dreams trampled...
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