John Noble (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
jackofallgeeks) wrote2005-11-22 02:31 pm
jackofallgeeks) wrote2005-11-22 02:31 pm
Regarding This...
I had a fight last night with a friend.
And she meant well, but...
Well, it basically boils down to the fact that I said I didn't know if I'd handled things with Meghan right; more to the point, even if other things between she and I don't work, I don't know how much my original excuse of "I just don't feel anything" holds up. It just seems so... I don't know. It seems wrong to me. I don't really believe in any 'magic feeling'; I believe in conscious choice and willful action. When I love someone, I want it to be because I choose to love them, not because of some accident. And while I'll admit that physical attraction does make an impact, I don't know how useful of a gauge it is.
Anyways, as for our fight, I went looking for a "no, you did the right thing, you just need to be reminded now and then," and instead got a "stop being so stupid; you irritate me."
This has left me off-center most of today.
Another friend sent me to a couple articles last night, at about the same time I was having my fight. I didn't get to reading them both, but the one was specifically on Dating, and particularly on how it's mentally and emotionally damaging -- a position I generally hold, if for no other reason than that Dating ends, and breaking up is hard. The trouble is, what alternative do we have? I was angry with the article for about 3/4ths of it's length, because it kept saying "Dating is bad" and "we need to replace it" without offering any fix, and making an (obvious) complaint without offering any constructive alternative gets under my skin pretty easily. But in the last fourth, it redeemed itself. It provided an alternative which, though impractical on a large scale, I think, offered some things that could be actually used.
The article was generally more fanatical than I would be, but made some points that, I think, were really pertinent. "For the most part, dating in our society has become a game -- a ritual of pairing off with a boyfriend or girlfriend on the basis of physical and emotional attraction. It is built on a false understanding of friendship and often has little to do with genuine love or faithfulness." "Vanity and superficiality go hand in hand with conventional dating." "The pressure to maintain an image, to find or to be the 'right one,' even to 'perform,' is intense." (It's this bit that I hate the most about dating, because it's this bit that, when a relationship fails, causes one to think "why am I not good enough," and "what's wrong with me.") And then the proposed alternative; "Instead of dating, our young men and women are given opportunities for positive, natural, mutual exchanges in daily settings of working, sharing, relaxing, serving, and playing together." "They get to know each other without pressure, in group settings, and as brothers and sisters." (Do pardon the funny vocabulary but, really, the girls I'm closest to are very much like sisters, because I don't have to worry about impressing them or acting a certain way; I can just be me.) "To worry about ... sexual virtue without worrying about their interpersonal virtue ... or their economic virtue ... is to privilege sex and send ... a distorted message."
I don't know if my quotations helped much, but... I think I'm really and truly tired of conventional dating, and I think what I'm really looking for are honest friendships; because I really believe that the relationship I'm looking for will be one that naturally grows out of friendship, out of spending time together and sharing thoughts and just being yourself -- all bits that I think conventional dating, generally, undermines.
This isn't to say that I won't take a girl to dinner, or for a walk on the beach, or anything else people might call a date, but that it wouldn't be any different than if I went to dinner with Leslie, because that's the kind of honest friendship I'm looking for.
There was also a bit somewhere about dating being a false exclusivity, kind of a "we're exclusive until we're not" sort of thing, which has recently left a sour taste in my mind when I think about it.
And I'm thinking I haven't accomplished much more than rambling here...
And she meant well, but...
Well, it basically boils down to the fact that I said I didn't know if I'd handled things with Meghan right; more to the point, even if other things between she and I don't work, I don't know how much my original excuse of "I just don't feel anything" holds up. It just seems so... I don't know. It seems wrong to me. I don't really believe in any 'magic feeling'; I believe in conscious choice and willful action. When I love someone, I want it to be because I choose to love them, not because of some accident. And while I'll admit that physical attraction does make an impact, I don't know how useful of a gauge it is.
Anyways, as for our fight, I went looking for a "no, you did the right thing, you just need to be reminded now and then," and instead got a "stop being so stupid; you irritate me."
This has left me off-center most of today.
Another friend sent me to a couple articles last night, at about the same time I was having my fight. I didn't get to reading them both, but the one was specifically on Dating, and particularly on how it's mentally and emotionally damaging -- a position I generally hold, if for no other reason than that Dating ends, and breaking up is hard. The trouble is, what alternative do we have? I was angry with the article for about 3/4ths of it's length, because it kept saying "Dating is bad" and "we need to replace it" without offering any fix, and making an (obvious) complaint without offering any constructive alternative gets under my skin pretty easily. But in the last fourth, it redeemed itself. It provided an alternative which, though impractical on a large scale, I think, offered some things that could be actually used.
The article was generally more fanatical than I would be, but made some points that, I think, were really pertinent. "For the most part, dating in our society has become a game -- a ritual of pairing off with a boyfriend or girlfriend on the basis of physical and emotional attraction. It is built on a false understanding of friendship and often has little to do with genuine love or faithfulness." "Vanity and superficiality go hand in hand with conventional dating." "The pressure to maintain an image, to find or to be the 'right one,' even to 'perform,' is intense." (It's this bit that I hate the most about dating, because it's this bit that, when a relationship fails, causes one to think "why am I not good enough," and "what's wrong with me.") And then the proposed alternative; "Instead of dating, our young men and women are given opportunities for positive, natural, mutual exchanges in daily settings of working, sharing, relaxing, serving, and playing together." "They get to know each other without pressure, in group settings, and as brothers and sisters." (Do pardon the funny vocabulary but, really, the girls I'm closest to are very much like sisters, because I don't have to worry about impressing them or acting a certain way; I can just be me.) "To worry about ... sexual virtue without worrying about their interpersonal virtue ... or their economic virtue ... is to privilege sex and send ... a distorted message."
I don't know if my quotations helped much, but... I think I'm really and truly tired of conventional dating, and I think what I'm really looking for are honest friendships; because I really believe that the relationship I'm looking for will be one that naturally grows out of friendship, out of spending time together and sharing thoughts and just being yourself -- all bits that I think conventional dating, generally, undermines.
This isn't to say that I won't take a girl to dinner, or for a walk on the beach, or anything else people might call a date, but that it wouldn't be any different than if I went to dinner with Leslie, because that's the kind of honest friendship I'm looking for.
There was also a bit somewhere about dating being a false exclusivity, kind of a "we're exclusive until we're not" sort of thing, which has recently left a sour taste in my mind when I think about it.
And I'm thinking I haven't accomplished much more than rambling here...
no subject
Now, I have my reservations about the kind of monogamy many folks practice in our culture anyway, but even the serial monogamy of dating can serve a purpose. It need not be a matter of "we're exclusive until we're not" - presumably, the value of monogamy is at least partially tied up in the fact that one can only have so many relationships of a certain level of intensity at a time. My relationship with this person here may be consuming enough that I could not devote the appropriate time and attention to someone else expecting the same kind of relationship - but that would not mean that the focus would be irrational, nor that it would be irrational for me to shift that focus if I decided it would be better to pursue such a relationship with someone else.
I actually think the idea of replacing romantic dating with some non-romantic analogue is a misguided reform - there are aspects of romantic and sexual relationships that are distinctive, and the sort of relationship you have with someone when it is neither (partially or wholly) exclusivistic nor romantic/sexual is not always an adequate preparation for what a romantic relationship with that person (or any person) would be like.
no subject
And I don't know that I'm even *really* looking for some non-romantic analogue, so much as something *far* more grounded in friendship. I don't want to go from zero-to-sixty in twelve seconds. I want a friendship that will grow into a romance.
And maybe this is all just a phase, me dealing with recent hurts...