jackofallgeeks | Communication

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Communication

So, I was reading Megan's Most Recent Post, and thought I might post something on communication. Sadly, I'm not sure what I have to say on the subject. How absolutely appropriate.

I love language. It's actually an odd phenomenon if I think about it long enough. Both Leslie and Gene - two pewople I have known for a great length of time - seem fascinated with Language. My brother Josh also takes an interest, mostly in 'dead' languages like latin, greek, and french. looking around my current circle of friends, Beth, Rae, and Tara are all interested enough in Language to study it in depth.

Somehow, I think my love of language is similar to all of theirs and yet... different. Estranged, in a way I can't explain, only that I feel I don't wrap my mind around it the same way they do. It may seem obvious, and the difference may be impossible to find, but I'm interested in language insofar as it it communicates. As I mentioned to Hexxy in a comment on Leslie's Journal, I don't care so much WHAT terms you use, so long as they are defined precisely and used consistantly.

I admire a number of my friends, Nifer, Louis, and Rachel, because of the way they seem to be able to communicate. Nifer, as you may know, conveys meaning in her writing (especially her lyrics) in ways I can only hope to emulate. I'm afraid my praise comes too often for it to be taken seriously, but Louis seems to have a way of conveying thought that I don't believe I could touch if I tried. Rachel has Theatre, which I admire in general, but it is also another form of communication which I do not possess.

I've rather lost my train of thought due to exhaustion. Let's see if I can finish up my last few points.

Firstly, Megan said something about not opening up. I, myself, have learned that I like to tralk, and have realized on occation that I have a tendancy, especially when I feel really comfortable, to pick up a conversation and run with it. I talk too much. Infact, I'm quite confident that I would tell my life story to anyone willing to listen. I think that might say something about me.

It occures to me that I find deep significance where other likely do not. I find profound statements in ordinary comments, made in passing. "Art requires contrast," for example, I saw sometime today and it just jumped out at me as strikingly meaningful, in scopes well beyond simply the artistic.

All today I was itching for a little verbal sparing, some intellectual combat if you will. Just a little back and forth play with someone on some subject or another. I would perhaps approach Kincaid, except that I fear she could quite succinctly shred me to ribbons. I suppose I admire her ability to communicate as well.

I hate it when I have a great inspiration for posting, and then my brain starts shutting down half-way through.
I know I have alot more to say, I just can't think of how to say it.
How absolutely appropriate.

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i enjoyed your last 'sparing' on surichan's post. i myself am a fan of language but of the 'unproper' type. i love to listen to local dialects and see what parts get dropped and re-arranged. my own language use is kinda jumbled and flowing, i let words and ideas fall how they may. it's also great fun to take things out of context thus making them mean all sorts of things.

^_^;; Would this sparring have been recent? I don't remember any sparring, myself (though I suppose I may fall into it without realizing). There WAS one time (http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=starlight1184&itemid=21208) that I had a nice bout with Bernie. That was cool. 'You're right, but...' It's such a classic opener. ^_^;;

I believe the word is 'improper.' ^_^
Yes, that's a joke, laugh.
Local dialects do interest me - I really liked 'My Fair Lady' for that reason - and I love hearing different accents. Some people say this accent or that accent gets on their nerves, but I find them fascinating. They make me giggle. Imagine the fun I had when I met that girl from Australia...
Generally, though, I like to be a 'formal' kinda guy, in writing and in speech. This does NOT follow over into my everyday life, necessarily (I speak the same as anyone else, usually) but I'm most interested in the formal standards, even if only to see how those standards are slighted.

Did that make any sense?

the sneezing puking fetish/fear post.
australian tounge is one of my favorites (feel free to take that outta context)
i think i understand, mostly

Just more of the reason I, the anal-retentive English speaker, find you so interesting, miss deth. ^_^

I too tend more toward formality, and am happiest hearing either neutral American accents, the Queen's English, and other "clean"-sounding accents where I can actually understand what's being said (I had the most horrible time the first time I saw "The Interview" - didn't understand half of what was going on until the second time through. ::blushes, grins:: Rather embarassed by that...). Some dialects pique my interest, but most just sound like minor abominations to me. It's really awful...makes me feel like a language snob in a way.

Oddly, though, I'm very different where Japanese is concerned. My favorite dialect is one called Kansai-ben, and, if it were translated into an American accent, would probably come out as, at lightest, a sweet little surfer boy lilt, and at heaviest, a combination of the absolute worst marble-mouthed Dixie drawl you ever heard coupled with a Bronx or Queens NY accent, piled on with more slang than your average incomprehensible rapper slings around. It's considered very uneducated-sounding and its use is rather frowned-upon by speakers of "proper" Tokyo-ben Japanese. And yet...it's my favorite Japanese dialect of them all, and I love listening to it. What an odd juxtaposition.

But anyway, my point is, it's good for me to hear your opinions on language and dialects, etc, because it helps to broaden my horizons.

i appreciate queen's english too, knowing also that it's a mix up of cultures in that too. did you know that some english and irish songs stayed in our culture through bluegrass? amazing how the words and melody are exactly the same it just got accented through generations and adapted to different instuments. that's a wonderful thing about languages, the culture stew.

bit o' background: i don't know the first time i heard aussie, i was raised with bbc, and got really into aussie b-movies as a teenager. i'm just drawn toward that culture, like you with japan?

i wanna hear that kansi-ben now. unfortunatly i don't have any japanese friends. the closest i get is phillipino co-workers and movies.

i've heard some countries get real annoyed at us americans because of our 'improper' english (along with other things of course). i should be more sensitive about such things cause i feel some people mistake me as 'uneducated' because of my spelling and sentence difficulties, you certainly don't make that assumption (sometimes i feel i have to assure them i spent a good deal of my life in school)

yeh, back at ya. you bring out my rants. i sure lucked out on meeting someone so interested in discussing things.

p.s. hello again to the journal host (waving)

I had no idea that English and Irish songs were handed down and became bluegrass! That's so interesting. Geez, you're a regular font of knowledge.

Ooh, one of the two Cave songs I have, "Where the Wild Roses Grow" just came on. Musta known I was writing to you. ::grins::

I'm sure Kansai-ben sounds just the same as proper Japanese to the untrained ear. ^_^ First time I heard it, though, I was like, "Wow, I didn't understand a word of that!" and I'm pretty good at Japanese, so I could hardly believe it was the same language. It's fascinating, the little differences in intonation and words that make it sound totally different. And of course, then there are the differences in thickness of the dialect...it's so multi-layered. Makes me wonder how foreigners who've studied English cope the first time they hear Ebonics (::snort::) or an accent from the Deep South. If you wanna hear Kansai-ben, I could make some sound files or something. It's pretty, even if you can't understand it.

I'm very happy to bring out your rants! I love reading them. Learning about and understanding people thrills me. And I think it should be obvious to anyone who does that any grammatical/spelling errors you may make are in no way indicative of your intellect. I've known some real idiots with impeccable spelling. ::grins and points at self::

::laughs:: Damn, Andrew - have you ever had a third-party conversation on your comments list before? I can't remember having ever seen one.

sorry server is too slow for that *sob*...someday.
it's sorta weird that we're having conversations about accents but can't hear a d#*n thing

More's the pity. I think I'd fly out there to see you just to have the chance to talk face-to-face with you about things. But, as I've said, I'm too curious about human motivation for my own good. ::smiles sheepishly::

mmm...wonder if i still have some sort of accent when people hear me?. you know how easy it is to not notice these things. do you have one?

What do you mean by "still" have an accent? Did you grow up with one?

I think I have what is known as a "neutral" American accent. That's what I've percieved from listening to my own voice and having people tell me how they think I sound. Some guy in a gas station once told me I sound like I'm from Montana, and me and roommate looked at him funny and threatened to beat him with my Slim Jim.

lol, what a jerk... whawha

i spent the first 18yrs of my life on a farm sorta near where mark twain's stories are based (hannibal, missuri) and lincoln's 'hometown' (springfield, il) right on the river. i think i had a bit of a broad accent, cause now that i'm away i notice how much my relatives have them.

every so often a stranger will comment, i guess i say something that sounds widwestern. but i think it's worn off mostly plus when i was a teen i made attempts not to sound 'hick'
you mean 'tv american' when you say neutral right?

::laughs:: Yeah, "TV American" probably says it all.

I just NOW got the LJ-Reply e-mail notification for this comment.
Not only is this notable for how effin' long it's taken it to get here, but also because I've been getting all my other notifications no problem. Including Leslie's reply to THIS post.
Weird.

Ha, I think you're right, I have never had a 3rd Party conversation. And now I've had two, both including you!
I can't say I really mind, though. Firstly, I figure it's my journal, so if I see something interesting, I'll just but in whenever. I should hope anyone posting here would have the same attitude - if you have something to say, say it.
Additionally, I imagine that if it did bother me, I would say something about it or somesuch.
So, yes.. Talk amongst yourselves. ^_^;;

I've always thought it's kinda neat when people talk in my comments list. One guy I know, though, when me and Amanda had a chat in his, got pissed off at us for not being "pertinant" - which I assume means because we weren't talking to him, what we had to say obviously had no bearing on the post. ::rolls eyes:: People...

*Waves*
Hello there. ^_^ How courteous of you.
Yes, I'm still here. It figures the day I get flooded with over 50 comments would be the day I'm brain-fried with a paper. Whee.

yes, join in whenever. i just sat myself down here and got comfy, *looks around* nice place.

^_^
You like what I've done? I was thinking about redoing a few things - moving that over there, for instance, but yeah, generally i'm proud of my work. ^_^

"but Louis seems to have a way of conveying thought"
thanks, cosidering my vocabluary is that of a 8th grader, that means a lot to me :).

"I hate it when I have a great inspiration for posting, and then my brain starts shutting down half-way through. " I know that feeling all to well my friend!

" I talk too much"
not true, you just think you do because you always listen to yourself

"I'm quite confident that I would tell my life story to anyone willing to listen"\
very true, but its a good story.

"All today I was itching for a little verbal sparing, some intellectual combat if you will. Just a little back and forth play with someone on some subject or another. I would perhaps approach Kincaid, except that I fear she could quite succinctly shred me to ribbons. I suppose I admire her ability to communicate as well."
I find that when I get n that mood, pickles have very interesting tales to tell....

Nair!! She's - she's - she's from Ryvius!!!!!!!!

I LOVE THAT SHOW

SO DO I!!! Do you have all of it? I could only get a couple episodes here and there, and I so want to see more!!

I have ep 10-12 on my hard disk right now. I know I have 1-9 on CD someplace because I watched it. I have up to episode 18 in my streamload account. I thought I had it all in there but I guess I was wrong. I think I can get up to 26 from my distros.

What have you seen?

Oh, goodness. I have 1-3, 5, 8, and I could swear I have 10 somewhere, but I can't find it. I also own and have read the second manga (of only two, I believe). So, I haven't really seen that much, but what I have seen, I've loved, and I've asked the friend who got me those few eps I have seen to keep scouring the 'Net for me, but he hasn't found anymore. If you know where I could get the rest, or just a straight run of those 26 eps instead of the bouncing around eps that I have, I will love you forever.

AND SHE BLINKS!!!!!

(and Leslie's an idiot...)

I guess I should have expected you to recognize her :P.

"...cosidering my vocabluary is that of a 8th grader..."
-Shrugs- Eh, we're all just big 8th Graders, when it comes down to it.
...OK, maybe not...

"...not true, you just think you do because you always listen to yourself..."
You make an interesting point, and it actually gos along with my theory on how we're always especially hard on ourselves because, let's face it, we have to live with ourselves. We see our own flaws intimately, and we're privy to every thought we ever have. Perhapse I feel I say things over and over again ad nausium because I listen to myself everytime I say it.
But I still talk to much, if you're foolish enough to let me. ^_^;;

"...pickles have very interesting tales to tell..."
You're...odd...

You make an interesting point, and it actually gos along with my theory on how we're always especially hard on ourselves because, let's face it, we have to live with ourselves. We see our own flaws intimately, and we're privy to every thought we ever have.

Along a similiar train of thought... I heard once (and truely believe it) that the people we either hate the most, or have the hardest time accepting, are generally people that subconsciously share the same traits that we hate in our ownselves. It would make sense... If you have trouble accepting a deeply annoying personality trait in yourself, how can you readily accept someone that only mirrors your own personal dislike?

food for thought.

I've actually heard the same thing, and it makes alot of sense when you look at it. Along similar lines, the criticisms/insults/whatever that sting the most, I imagine, touch on flaws which we 'know' we are guilty of.

I hate it when I have a great inspiration for posting, and then my brain starts shutting down half-way through.
I know I have alot mnore to say, I just can't think of how to say it.

Thats exactly what happened to me last night. Its so absolutely frustrating... but for me it seems that when I try to write an inspired entry, my mind begins to consider so many things at once that my fingers simply cannot keep up, so then it just all becomes too hard to translate into writing and I just give up.

Infact, I'm quite confident that I would tell my life story to anyone willing to listen. I think that might say something about me.

I don't do this as much anymore, but I used to have a stronger habit of it. Now I check what I say to newly met people... except for occasionally when I just feel like I need someone to release all my thoughts on and suddenly I'll be spilling everything. Its so much easier to release troubling life issues upon complete strangers, than it is to friends sometimes.

Conrad, (my coworker out in CA), for instance, is such a case. Only a couple of months into working with him, I go in one night and its just us in the store. The day before I had found out that I was suddenly an aunt of two twins whose mother was a woman that our family has rather bad history with. This isn't normally something you simply release upon people, since a person is taught that such personal family issues are meant to be kept private. Yet I hadn't heard from any of my close friends in a while and felt like there weren't many people I could talk to about it and other things that were bugging me, so that night at work I just suddenly let it all out on him. Luckily he didn't judge me or my family, and since then he's become one of my most trusted confidantes. That far away friend that I know I can give an earful to whenever I need someone to listen to me. So I suppose he taught me that there are people out there that a person can trust... but it hasn't really changed my general attitude of staying tight-lipped most of the time.

As for the rest of your post, (the quote at the top, provided by the loverly Bowie Gawd ^_^, is for your meaningful enjoyment. ) I agree with the strong interest in language. Ever since I had my exchange to Japan, when I came home, I kept studying our own language more strongly (not that its improved my grammar) and basically attempted to see it from a foreigner's point of view. It led to me noticing some rather ridiculous habits of speech, as well as further developing my interest in general towards human communication. Why we feel the need to do it. Why sight and touch isn't enough for us. There are so many useless courtesy phrases we go through each day, (How are you?... Bad. ... I didn't really want that answer. I was expecting a "Good" even if it wasn't true.) and yet they're so familiar that when they do not come, I feel as though some horrible breach in etiquette has been performed.

Fun, I'm babbling. But not making any sense, so I'll leave now. ^_^;;

There are so many useless courtesy phrases we go through each day, (How are you?... Bad. ... I didn't really want that answer. I was expecting a "Good" even if it wasn't true.) and yet they're so familiar that when they do not come, I feel as though some horrible breach in etiquette has been performed.

Oooh, conversational protocol. I love it! Its one of the more intricate nuances of language, and is probably the point at which most cultures diverge. I could go on and on about it, but its late, and my brain doesn't want to work on that level currently. I think I'll come back here tomorrow though.

"...it seems that when I try to write an inspired entry, my mind begins to consider so many things at once..."
That definitely happens with me. However, in my case, it's more to the point that I try touching on so many things that I fear my point gets lost and I don't make much sense at all. I imagine I flatter myself by supposing I have these great, deep thoughts floating through my head, and it's so frustrating when I can't express them.

"...Its so much easier to release troubling life issues upon complete strangers, than it is to friends sometimes..."
It occurs to me, perhapse, that this is why I'm so free with strangers. Yes, to a point I figure 'I'll never see this person again, so what does it matter what they think of me' (oddly enough, I've made a number of good friends because of that) but something I forgot to put in my post is that the strongest bar to my speaking is the fear that people really aren't interested - perhapse it says something for the break-down of communication if one feels a stranger is more interested in what you have to say than a friend. Of course, in defense of my many friendships, I also feel much of the time that I'm just saying the same things over and over again - and perhapse I am - and since I am such friends with these people, I figure they've all heard it already, and as such won't want to hear it again.

"...How are you?... Bad. ... I didn't really want that answer. I was expecting a "Good" even if it wasn't true..."
This is actually one of those little things that irks me, though I confess I'm guilty of it myself. That is, the insincerity of our speech at times. That whole 'how are you (but I don't REALLY want to know)' line always bothers me, and I try to make a point of being honest with it, both when asking and when answering.
-shrugs- But that's just me.

All today I was itching for a little verbal sparing, some intellectual combat if you will. Just a little back and forth play with someone on some subject or another. I would perhaps approach Kincaid, except that I fear she could quite succinctly shred me to ribbons. I suppose I admire her ability to communicate as well.

Are you saying that you don't like to spar verbally with people who you do not feel superior to in this respect?

I'm pained, but that is rather a fair shot at it.
No, the implication that I only prey on those to whom I feel superior is incorrect. If that were the case, I would have no one with which to spar at all (no, that's not completely true, but I don't think it's fun attacking those who can't put up a fight).

Quite the opposite, it's more I would spar with Kincaid but I feel vastly inferior to her. I wouldn't be able to put up a fight, as it seems she has a better handle on what she's saying and how she says it. I would very quickly, I believe, be shot out of the air and 'succinctly shredded' if I were to try going head-to-head with her.

I like to think those who read my journal regularly are more on even-footing with me than I would be with her, is all.

But don't you think it would be somewhat enriching to go at it with someone like that? I mean, I know that I felt very inferior to Andy when I would discuss things with him, but I still would discuss things and play our little word games with him because I thought I could get so much out of it, even if I wasn't on even ground with him - that, and it's humbling. It's good to be humbled, now and again.

-nods-
You make a valid point, and I see your reasoning.
I suppose it's something like this - in jui-jitsu class, you (generally) spar with those on your level. In this way, each participant can learn something, of themselves and of the fighting style. You don't fight with first-year students, or if you do, you pull your punches and teach more than practice. Even with this being given, however, there will come a time when the instructor calls you to the match. While he is more skilled and better practiced, by far, than you are, it can be a valuable exercise and, if he is a good instructor, he will teach more than practice.
With that in mind, maybe I'll yet get up the courage to seek out Ms. Kincaid.

::laughs:: Actually, Andrew, in jiu-jitsu class, I don't just spar with people on my level. The class is full of people from all ranges, and you take on whoever you want or whoever you're paired with. Sometimes they're less able than you, sometimes far more. Why, it wasn't too many entries back at all where I related how I went up against my instructor, and she did not hold back.

This, however, is beside the point. I hope you do go seek out Miss Kincaid, because I think you'll find that, challenging yourself, you might not be as at a loss against her as you imagine.

Ok, ok, ok - look past all that, to the spirit of the analogy, OK? I'm trying to make a point here that can be applied to life in general, trouble me not with the facts of reality.
You may be right. I DOUBT it, but you may be right.

You may be right. I DOUBT it, but you may be right.

I'm wounded, really.

"I've got my mind made up; don't confuse me with facts", hmm? ^___~

-confusion-
Wounded? Why, I'm merely doubting my own abilities.
And, while you're comment is both clever and scathing, no, that's not what I meant. I was making an analogy, and I was more trying to make a general comment on life than a critique on jui-jitsu traning.

Ah, I see, it's your own abilities you're doubting. Wound retracted.

::laughs:: Yes, I understand what you were trying to do. I'm just a literal bitch. ::grins::

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Communication

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