John Noble (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
jackofallgeeks) wrote2002-09-25 01:39 pm
jackofallgeeks) wrote2002-09-25 01:39 pm
A Question Of Honor
"After the Rapture and the establishment of New Jerusalem and the condemnation of all the rebels and sinners to Hell... how do we know none of the Christians that remain will ever be swayed away from the Will of God again? If even the angels, who I get the impression are largely spiritual extensions of God without the range of emotion or independence that humans enjoy, were capable of rebelling, how do we know that humans -- even in whatever "perfected" form they take in Heaven -- will be incapable of or unwilling to rebel? Surely God won't be revoking the entire human race's free will? So if we still have the ability to choose evil, how do we know we won't screw the whole thing up all over again?"
Kincaid makes a good point, but as I'm still afraid to comment on her Journal, I'll express my thoughts here.
Of course, the Rapture is not a Catholic notion. Not that Kincaid implied such, of course, but simply the Rapture, as such, has little religious meaning to me. Not that I even understand what the Rapture is, but...
Back to Kincaid's point. What's to say we won't skrew up again? I agree that God won't be revoking our free will - I'm sure if he was going to do that, he'd have done it by now. Or just wiped us off the planet. Maybe there is no garontee that we won't skrew up. I'm not a theologian, I can't say any way. The concept of 'eternity' still boggles my mind. However, I seem to remember that our tendancy to turn from God comes from our fallen nature - which implies that if our nature were restored, we wouldn't disobey God. However, what about Adam an Eve? They couldn't have been fallen before the fall. Perhaps, though, since the fall we have gained some attribute which they lacked. It would make sense, wouldn't it? You have to assume that all of human history has a point to it, perhaps the Fall was intended for something we can't comprehend. Perhaps I'll ponder this further in the next few days...
In any case, it must be accepted that, assuming God wants us to love Him, you can not truely love without a free will - lending support to my concept of love as a choice. Therefore, He couldn't remove our free will as that would remove our whole point of being - to love. And yet, if one may choose to love, one may also choose not to love. Interesting.
Kincaid makes a good point, but as I'm still afraid to comment on her Journal, I'll express my thoughts here.
Of course, the Rapture is not a Catholic notion. Not that Kincaid implied such, of course, but simply the Rapture, as such, has little religious meaning to me. Not that I even understand what the Rapture is, but...
Back to Kincaid's point. What's to say we won't skrew up again? I agree that God won't be revoking our free will - I'm sure if he was going to do that, he'd have done it by now. Or just wiped us off the planet. Maybe there is no garontee that we won't skrew up. I'm not a theologian, I can't say any way. The concept of 'eternity' still boggles my mind. However, I seem to remember that our tendancy to turn from God comes from our fallen nature - which implies that if our nature were restored, we wouldn't disobey God. However, what about Adam an Eve? They couldn't have been fallen before the fall. Perhaps, though, since the fall we have gained some attribute which they lacked. It would make sense, wouldn't it? You have to assume that all of human history has a point to it, perhaps the Fall was intended for something we can't comprehend. Perhaps I'll ponder this further in the next few days...
In any case, it must be accepted that, assuming God wants us to love Him, you can not truely love without a free will - lending support to my concept of love as a choice. Therefore, He couldn't remove our free will as that would remove our whole point of being - to love. And yet, if one may choose to love, one may also choose not to love. Interesting.
no subject
The Rapture, as I have come to understand it, is something I remember being told about when I was in Third Grade, in Greenbriar Christian Academy. Back then, my parents had been told that it was a non-denominational Christian school, so they felt comfortable sending me, a Catholic child, there. Looking back, though, it was never a school that was really friendly to people outside of Southern Baptists - in fact, at the end of my Third Grade year, a textbook was adopted by the school which flat-out taught that Catholics were evil and would be some of the very first going to Hell. Anyway, so...as I have come to understand The Rapture from my limited childhood memory, it's pretty much this:
Joe Shmoe Born-Again is going about his daily life. He's at work, drinking a cup of coffee, having a conversation with his non-"saved" secretary, Susan. All of a sudden, Joe vanishes. Poof. Like that. Susan, in utter bewilderment, goes out into the larger office, only to find that many other people have also disappeared. News stories start coming on, saying vast amounts of people have seemed to have spontaneously vanished from the Earth. That's The Rapture, in one take. Others say that Jesus will appear, and all "true believers" in God will be taken to Heaven in a shaft of brilliant light with him...there are lots of takes.
But the point is, every "born-again" or "saved" individual (usually Southern Baptist, as they're the group that predominantly talks about The Rapture) will be taken to Heaven, leaving all non-believers or Christians who just weren't quite good enough on Earth, to experience the coming of the Anti-Christ, the Last Days, and then the end of the world, upon which they will all be judged and most (if not all) of them sent to Hell.
Wheeeeeeeee Rapture.
no subject
The Rapture, as such, is only popular to a few Protestant denominations, I believe, and is rather against Catholic teachings, in that we believe there's no such thing as "saved, period." Heh, I suppose we believe that, in the end, we'll all have to suffer through the Anti-Christ.
no subject
Badgers? We don't need no stinking badgers!
Perhaps it's common to us Catholics, but it certainly isn't Dogma.
^_~
no subject
no subject
><*