http://dikaiosunh.livejournal.com/ ([identity profile] dikaiosunh.livejournal.com) wrote in [personal profile] jackofallgeeks 2008-04-23 03:23 pm (UTC)

You're still making lots of generalized, unsourced claims, which makes this difficult to reply to.

1. 33 states have specific informed-consent laws for abortions (every state has general informed-consent rules that require doctors to give relevant information to people undergoing any surgical procedure - the only difference is that in 17 states the information given for abortion is, as with any other procedure, up to the discretion of the physician). Many of these do include mention of the breast cancer and pre-term birth concerns, even though those are rejected by the medical consensus. Guttmacher Institute has an overview article here and a state-by-state breakdown here (pdf), including a breakdown on your issues of concern (see p. 3).

As for the "precautionary principle" - I think the best way to go is with the medical/scientific consensus. If you want to tell women considering an abortion that there was one, debunked, study, that claimed to find an abortion-breast cancer link, that's fine with me (see NCI for a quick discussion of the state of the evidence). If you load someone up with every possible drawback to a procedure, you're going to defeat the purpose of informed consent by overloading them with information they can't sift through. Some people have believed that removal of the heart will prevent you from passing through the Gates of Ma'at in the afterlife, but we don't warn organ donors about that.

2. I have not seen every movie of the past three decades, no. I grabbed a couple of prominent recent examples. I *did* watch movies during the 70s-90s, but none that paint abortion in a good or trivial light are coming immediately to mind. Without some examples, I don't know how to continue that part of the conversation. I also read relatively few webcomics, and the only one I read in which abortion has come up is Something Positive - but if you're reading S*P for role models, you've got bigger issues. In any event, I'm not sure webcomics mentions constitute any sort of pop culture onslaught.

3. "pro-choice individuals don't seem to desire to make any distinction between "fertility control," for lack of a better term, and outright abortiofacients"

I have no idea who you're referring to. I just explained the difference between RU-486 (an abortifacient) and the "morning after" pill (emergency contraception) to [livejournal.com profile] jackofallgeeks. If more clarity is needed, I will re-emphasize that EC operates either by interrupting ovulation or by preventing implantation (though there's generally no way to tell which way it operates in any particular case). Medically, pregnancy is typically defined as beginning at implantation, hence EC is not classified as an abortifacient. If you believe pregnancy begins at fertilization, then your view of it may vary. I'd just note that a fertilized ovum failing to implant for natural reasons is a fairly common occurrence, spontaneously. Most pro-choice folks I know could, and will, and have, done the same. I'm sorry if you've met someone who didn't know the difference - every group has some uninformed members.

4. "Medical" abortion (as opposed to surgical abortion) is a term sometimes used to refer to abortion via the administration of RU-486 (mifepristone). Unless there are complications, no, this procedure is not invasive. As I pointed out to JoAG, it's still not the sort of thing I'd do for kicks on a Sunday afternoon.


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